Journals of the Senate
1st Session, 41st Parliament
Issue 169
Tuesday, June 4, 2013
2:00 p.m.
The Honourable Noël A. Kinsella, Speaker
The Members convened were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Doyle, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Sibbeston, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Wells, White
The Members in attendance to business were:
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Baker, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Callbeck, Campbell, Carignan, Champagne, Chaput, Comeau, Cools, Cordy, Cowan, Dagenais, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Demers, Doyle, Duffy, Dyck, Eaton, Eggleton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Fraser, Frum, Furey, Gerstein, Greene, Harb, Hervieux-Payette, Housakos, Jaffer, Johnson, Joyal, Kenny, Kinsella, Lang, LeBreton, Lovelace Nicholas, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, Massicotte, McCoy, McInnis, McIntyre, Mercer, Meredith, Mitchell, Mockler, Moore, Munson, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Ringuette, Rivard, Rivest, Robichaud, Runciman, Segal, Seidman, Seth, Sibbeston, Smith (Cobourg), Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tardif, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wallin, Watt, Wells, White
The first list records senators present in the Senate Chamber during the course of the sitting.
An asterisk in the second list indicates a senator who, while not present during the sitting, was in attendance to business, as defined in subsections 8(2) and (3) of the Senators Attendance Policy.
PRAYERS
MESSAGES FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS
A message was brought from the House of Commons to return Bill S-213, An Act respecting a national day of remembrance to honour Canadian veterans of the Korean War,
And to acquaint the Senate that the Commons has passed this bill, without amendment.
SENATORS' STATEMENTS
Some Honourable Senators made statements.
ROUTINE PROCEEDINGS
Tabling of Documents
With leave of the Senate,
The Honourable the Speaker tabled the following:
Copy of a letter from the Speaker of the Senate to the Commissioner of the RCMP, dated May 30, 2013, concerning the 22nd and 26th reports of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration.—Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1645S.
Introduction and First Reading of Government Bills
A message was brought from the House of Commons with a Bill C-51, An Act to amend the Witness Protection Program Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act, to which it desires the concurrence of the Senate.
The bill was read the first time.
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Poirier, that the bill be placed on the Orders of the Day for a second reading two days hence.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
SPEAKER'S RULING
On May 28, the Honourable Senator Harb raised a question of privilege about alleged outside interference in the internal affairs of the Senate. This question touched, in particular, on the work of the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration, which has been reviewing certain senators' living expenses. Senator Harb argued that the effect of the outside influence has been to taint the process leading to the three reports on expenses made by the committee thus far. He claimed that this has had an impact on the reputation of the Senate and constitutes a breach of privilege. Since the question of privilege was raised, the last of the three reports has been adopted, and Senator Harb did speak to the twenty-fourth report, which dealt with his expenses.
A number of other senators spoke to the question of privilege. Senator Carignan noted that Senator Harb raised arguments similar to ones addressed in previous questions of privilege that had already been resolved. The Deputy Leader of the Government also indicated that other parliamentary processes would be available to address these concerns. Senator Carignan also made reference to the processes available through the different public officials dealing with ethics matters.
Senator Nolin went on to encourage Senator Harb to intervene in debate, which he later did, while Senator Cools called for the Senate to be cautious in how it proceeds. Finally, SenatorAndreychuk clarified the role of the ethics officers.
As stated in a ruling of May 28, the gravity of the situation the Senate has been confronting should not be underestimated. Public trust in the institution is at stake. There is little doubt that senators are examining these matters carefully, as demonstrated by the proceedings on the reports of the Internal Economy Committee. While the Senate has a range of options open to it in considering its business, the Speaker is constrained by the Rules when considering a question of privilege, and must evaluate it in light of the four criteria of rule 13-3(1), all of which must be met.
Senator Harb stated that the first criterion has been met as his question of privilege followed from new information. While not denying this reality, senators should be cautious about using each new event as an opportunity to raise a question of privilege repeating previous arguments. This caution holds particularly in the current case, where this is the third ruling.
When considering the second and third criteria — that the question must relate to privilege and that there must be a grave or serious breach — one must remember that the Senate has the exclusive right to manage its internal affairs, including its debates, agenda and proceedings. As noted in a previous ruling, the process whereby the Senate considered the reports of the Internal Economy Committee was an exercise of this authority. The final outcome of the reports was decisions by the Senate after the public debate allowed by our Rules and our practice. Senator Harb took part in the debate. The right of the Senate to control its own affairs has been respected. Neither the second criterion nor the third have been met.
The final criteria of rule 13-3(1) is that a question of privilege must "be raised to seek a genuine remedy that the Senate has the power to provide and for which no other parliamentary process is reasonably available.'' The Senate received various reports on the review of senators' living expenses. The one dealing with Senator Brazeau was adopted before this question of privilege. Another, dealing with Senator Duffy, was sent back to committee, where it was amended. The amended report was then adopted by the Senate. The report dealing with Senator Harb was still under consideration when the question of privilege was raised. A motion to refer it to committee had been moved, but was subsequently rejected and the report adopted.
The various actions adopted by the Senate in relation to the reports make clear that a range of parliamentary processes could be used to bring forward the concerns raised in the question of privilege. All senators had the chance to speak to the reports, and Senator Harb availed himself of that right. The Senate has now made a decision on all the reports, and Senator Harb's question of privilege does not meet the fourth criterion.
Since the question of privilege does not meet the criteria of rule13-3(1), a prima facie case of privilege cannot be found to exist.
ORDERS OF THE DAY
GOVERNMENT BUSINESS
Bills — Third Reading
Order No. 1 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable SenatorLang, seconded by the Honourable Senator Martin, for the third reading of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the RoyalCanadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts;
And on the motion in amendment of the Honourable SenatorDay, seconded by the Honourable Senator Hubley, that the Bill C-42 be not now read a third time but that it be amended
(a) in clause 12, on page 9, by replacing line 28 with the following:
"7(1)(e) of that Act, but the categories determined shall include categories of members who perform duties and functions that are substantially the same as the duties and functions performed by officers and by members other than officers on the coming into force of this section.'';
(b) in clause 13, on page 9, by replacing line 36 with the following:
"(a) determine categories of members, which shall include categories of members who perform duties and functions that are substantially the same as the duties and functions performed by officers and by members other than officers on the coming into force of this section; and''; and
(c) in clause 86, on page 118,
(i) by replacing line 25 with the following:
"definition reads on that date, other than a member who is a member on the day this Act is assented to, who does not'', and
(ii) by replacing line 32 with the following:
"Canadian Mounted Police Act, other than a member who is a member on the day this Act is assented to, who does not''.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following vote:
YEAS
The Honourable Senators
Baker, Callbeck, Campbell, Chaput, Cordy, Cowan, Dallaire, Dawson, Day, De Bané, Dyck, Eggleton, Fraser, Furey, Hervieux-Payette, Jaffer, Joyal, Kenny, Lovelace Nicholas, McCoy, Mitchell, Moore, Munson, Ringuette, Rivest, Robichaud, Sibbeston, Tardif, Watt—29
NAYS
The Honourable Senators
Andreychuk, Ataullahjan, Batters, Bellemare, Beyak, Black, Boisvenu, Braley, Buth, Carignan, Champagne, Comeau, Dagenais, Demers, Doyle, Eaton, Enverga, Fortin-Duplessis, Frum, Gerstein, Greene, Housakos, Johnson, Lang, LeBreton, MacDonald, Maltais, Manning, Marshall, Martin, McInnis, McIntyre, Meredith, Mockler, Nancy Ruth, Neufeld, Ngo, Nolin, Ogilvie, Oh, Oliver, Patterson, Plett, Poirier, Raine, Rivard, Runciman, Seidman, Seth, Smith (Saurel), Stewart Olsen, Tannas, Tkachuk, Unger, Verner, Wallace, Wells, White—58
ABSTENTIONS
The Honourable Senators
Cools, Harb—2
The Senate resumed debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Lang, seconded by the Honourable Senator Martin, for the third reading of Bill C-42, An Act to amend the RoyalCanadian Mounted Police Act and to make related and consequential amendments to other Acts.
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted, on division.
The bill was then read the third time and passed, on division.
Ordered, That a message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this bill, without amendment.
Ordered, That Order No. 1 be again called.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable SenatorWhite, seconded by the Honourable Senator McIntyre, for the third reading of Bill S-16, An Act to amend the CriminalCode (trafficking in contraband tobacco).
After debate,
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The bill was then read the third time and passed.
Ordered, That the Clerk do go down to the House of Commons and acquaint that House that the Senate has passed this bill, to which it desires its concurrence.
Bills — Second Reading
Second reading of Bill C-48, An Act to amend the Income Tax Act, the Excise Tax Act, the Federal-Provincial Fiscal Arrangements Act, the First Nations Goods and Services Tax Act and related legislation.
The Honourable Senator Black moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bellemare, that the bill be read the secondtime.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Moore moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Day, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Second reading of Bill C-52, An Act to amend the Canada Transportation Act (administration, air and railway transportation and arbitration).
The Honourable Senator Unger moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Smith (Saurel), that the bill be read the second time.
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Fraser, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
Reports of Committees — Other
Orders No. 1 to 3 were called and postponed until the nextsitting.
Motions
Order No. 67 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
Inquiries
Order No. 4 was called and postponed until the next sitting.
OTHER BUSINESS
Senate Public Bills — Third Reading
Order No. 1 (Bill S-207) was called and, pursuant to rule4-15(2), dropped from the Order Paper.
Commons Public Bills — Third Reading
Orders No. 1 and 2 were called and postponed until the nextsitting.
Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable SenatorBoisvenu, seconded by the Honourable Senator Braley, for the third reading of Bill C-316, An Act to amend the Employment Insurance Act (incarceration).
After debate,
The Honourable Senator Tardif, for the Honourable SenatorCordy, moved, seconded by the Honourable SenatorFraser, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
The Honourable Senator Carignan moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin:
That the Senate do now adjourn.
The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.
(Accordingly, at 6:01 p.m. the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 1:30 p.m.)
REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 14-1(7):
Actuarial Report Updating the Actuarial Report on the Pension Plan for the Members of Parliament for the fiscal year ended March 31, 2010, pursuant to the Public Pensions Reporting Act, R.S.C. 1985, c.13 (2nd Supp.), sbs. 9(1). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1643.
Interim Order No. 11 Respecting Private Operators (JUS-81100-2-109-11), dated May 31, 2013, pursuant to the Aeronautics Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. A-2, sbs. 6.41(5) and (6). —Sessional Paper No. 1/41-1644.
Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 12-5
Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce
The Honourable Senator Segal replaced the Honourable Senator Nancy Ruth (May 30, 2013).
Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration
The Honourable Senator Charette-Poulin replaced the Honourable Senator Fraser (June 3, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs
The Honourable Senator Jaffer replaced the Honourable Senator Dallaire (June 3, 2013).
The Honourable Senator Beyak replaced the Honourable Senator Batters (May 30, 2013).
Standing Senate Committee on National Finance
The Honourable Senator Mockler replaced the Honourable Senator McInnis (June 4, 2013).
Standing Committee on Rules, Procedures and the Rights of Parliament
The Honourable Senator Runciman replaced the Honourable Senator Wells (June 4, 2013).